[Marajin]

hey...

ive played synergy for a long long time... and in nearly every version... and never i was so pissed off and disappointed as today, ive tried to play the new version with some friends and we wanted to play the half life storyline maps... but then i discovered this " funny " little thing with the lives... and we wanted to have some fun playing co-op, but co-op with lives is like impossible and its just not fun watching every step (in my opinion...) and yeah its easy... really easy... but screw this rather easy town then " rofl i died again now i can play the whole boring map again... yuhooo! "

the " new " life system is the most epic fail i ever saw in a half life mod or anything related with it...

i know there where lives in other versions BUT they where optional (and i never saw one server with active life system mostly because its a pain in the arse ) and if there is a way to deactivate them on a listen server

A: it should be way easier! and B: i m sorry for this post

but as far as i can see there is none...

and yes... i tried " mp_lifecount -1 and 0 and whatever "

soooo please cut this crap and give us the option back... because this sucks... hard... and if it stays like this im outta here...

[VOSK]

The spawn tokens are optional, set mp_lifecount to "0" and restart the map.
You can only spawn if there are other teammates alive.
It makes the game much more fun and challenging. Having it too easy was just no fun at all.

What exactly was the point in this topic? You seem to have not posted any suggestions or anything.

[Icely]

Clearly he is talking about the not being able to spawn if no players are alive. I believe the point of the post was to suggest making this behavior an optional feature. I agree.

[Teddl]

No. I mean keep it at least optional if you change it!
It is so much fun when all jump over the edge in the beginning of Episode 1
Last time I was the last man standing. hehe

No realy. If the map is restarted all players are motivated to beat the map!
Just my 2 cents.

[Marajin]

i tried the thing with mp_lifecount... and i changed / restarted the map, and nothing happend... and the thing with other players.. i didn't know that and told my friends theirs no point in playing because can only die once and stuff...

and the suggestion is " make this " feature " optional or a lot of people will stop / never start playing syn... "

i just want a little checkbox with " Lives y or n " and a little drop down or something to set the lives, for those who like the " livestyle "

and the thing about restarting the map if you die to much... if thats so for you... strange but fine have fun...

but if that would happen to me id be pretty pissed and would not even look at syn for a few days...

its like an arcade game... but gladly you dont need to put a coin in each time you fail...

anyone?

[Silikone]

So you admit you die every moment in Half-Life 2. Well you DO play it on easy right?

[Cpt. Falcon]

I don't believe this game has lives in the conventional sense.
From what little I've played, I think it works like this.
Every time someone dies, the spawn tokens increases by one. The number of spawn tokens is proportional to how long you have to wait to spawn. Hopefully the tokens have a cap, so greifers won't be able to completely ruin the server.
You cannot get Game Over by dying repeatedly. The only way you can get Game Over other than something like Alyx dying or the Jalopy falling is if everyone is waiting to respawn simaltaneously.

So if everyone jumps off a cliff like aforementioned, you lose.
If everyone but one person jumps, they'll all die, and once their respawn gets to zero, they spawn at the remaining player.

[Marajin]

So you admit you die every moment in Half-Life 2. Well you DO play it on easy right?

uhm... no

i just think its lame to have to start over again every time you (or every 3 times you die, blah!) and if you like it hard then play one level over and over again because you flip'd a explosive barrel wrong or one of the other players screws up...

and to Cpt. Falcon, i thank you for your comment, and i thank that its not a worthless flame... others...
but i think their just should be a classic sven coop style game mode without lives, no last man standing, tokens or other stuff just plain old ordinary co-op (or just a checkbox / command to easily stop those features...)

and if you dont think so you just dont play it or (if someone from the dev team or something reads this...) just dont make it...
but i bet their are a lot of people who would prefer the standard style...

and just to say it again,
i really like the mod and i would love to see the standard mode back on the mod because i think it would make the mod more attractive to a bunch of more people...

[TheMoon]

uhm... no

i just think its lame to have to start over again every time you (or every 3 times you die, blah!)

I think you've misunderstood the "lives" system. There is no lives in Synergy, only "life tokens" which do not decide whether you respawn, but how long it takes you to do so. That means, if you play with another guy you can suicide over and over again without ever losing, as long as he is alive. The only way you can lose the game (=map restart) is whan all players are waiting for respawn at the same time.

Now we've got this straight, I do think as well that this restarting/losing stuff should be a cvar.
I don't like that system at all. Think about it, it does not make anything more challenging, because you can easily get around it by always having one player stay back and survive. Meanwhile, the others push through rambo-style without having to care for their life, because they'll respawn anyway no matter what.

Also, it's incredibly annoying on maps such as trials, where any move forward is most likely your last one if you don't do everything perfectly. Therefore, the behaviour described previously is not only possible, but the only way to success.

[Silikone]

I hate vanilla Sven Co-op. It's all about killing and dying until you win. The only challange is to get the hi-score.

[GODJonez]

I was also almost shocked seeing the life tokens when we played syn_trials4. We had mp_lifecount at 0 the whole time, yet the game insisted on displaying the heart icon and respawn times were something like 45 seconds. We play it with 2 people, me and my friend. One dies, either of us can do anything in 45 seconds because that's the time to wait for respawning, and if the other player does something and dies, it's all over again.

Really, I don't find that fun at all. Just because we make one little mistake we need to wait for a long time or even start the map from the beginning. That's not challenging, that's just irritating. Usually when this happens, we just noclip back to the place we were in before restart. Now where is the option to disable this behavior? I surely hope it will be implemented soon.

[VOSK]

I said that mp_lifecount was removed from trials - if you still have it on, delete your *.dat files from your synergy\maps directory.

Also, we're trying to get very far from SvenCoop "gameplay". It was fun a long time ago.

Also, 1 death does not equal 1 lost spawn token. It removes a spawn token if certain percentage of players die at the same time.

[CMaster]

I think the curernt spawn system works great for the campaign.

I think it works really poorly for some of the syn_ maps. Reason - far too easy to end up right back at the start. Examples:

Playing Trials. Just the three of us. Generally take turns jumping (which is frustrating to have to do in itself). Anyway, a bit of miscommunication and two of jump and fall pretty closeley together. The other guy's connection dropped. Result - we have to do the whole damn map over again.

Playing silent house, just 2 of us. Wandering outside at the start. Sticking together in case something happens. Suddenly the ground starts glowing blue and we both drop dead. Yay, repeat the last 10 minutes over again!

The map I intend to release for the contest is prone to small team-wipes as well.

[VOSK]

I agree CMaster, mp_lifecount shouldn't be used on the potential "team-wipe" maps.
(Going to use that name, if you don't mind. lol)

--------------

I'd like to make a suggestion, in general, everyone should suggest alternatives to the things they don't like in Synergy, instead of crying like a little child. Help us - telling us "epic phail" doesn't help. It just shows to us that you're not worth listening to.

Determine (or just ask for) the reason why a particular feature was added or changed first. Then, try to think of an alternative.

I think I'll put that in Ideas and Suggestions, as a sticky.

[Deathstick]

Hehe, yeah an option for lifecounts disabled on syn_ maps would be welcome over here. Then I can add in all the epic traps that I want that require someone to die.. (anvil falling from the sky anyone? )

[CMaster]

I agree CMaster, mp_lifecount shouldn't be used on the potential "team-wipe" maps.
(Going to use that name, if you don't mind. lol)

So just to clarify - is there a cvar that means all players dieing doesn't reset the map? And yeah, feel free to use that term all you want - think it's a reasonably common MMO one.

I'd like to think that I at least try to be as complete when approaching issues as possible.

[GODJonez]

How it works currently:

• When a player dies, he will respawn next to another alive player once the respawn timer reaches zero
• The respawn timer is dependant of the number of life tokens and number of players
• When all players are dead at the same time, the map restarts. This is bad if there are few players or on so-called "team-wipe" maps, forcing everyone to replay all the map again.

What I suggest:

• Allow customizing respawn timer either by being as a coefficient to the current timer (for example value .5 would halve the time) or being absolute value (for example 5 would make it always be 5 seconds)
• Allow players to choose whether to spawn next to a friend (and which friend) or back to spawn area, possibly limited by server variable
• If all players are dead, let the people respawn at the original spawn area or the latest checkpoint without resetting the map
• Create a new entity or add a new keyvalue for existing entity that controls which method should be used in the map for all-dead situations. In some maps it could be justified to restart it completely instead of just respawning on start.
• Create a server variable that controls which method is to be used.
• Combined: Add map entity that controls all-dead situation and let the CVAR have three values:
  
  1. Use map settings
  2. Always restart map when all players are dead
  3. Always respawn at start when all players are dead

[CMaster]

How it works currently:

• When a player dies, he will respawn next to another alive player once the respawn timer reaches zero
• The respawn timer is dependant of the number of life tokens and number of players
• When all players are dead at the same time, the map restarts. This is bad if there are few players or on so-called "team-wipe" maps, forcing everyone to replay all the map again.

What I suggest:

• Allow customizing respawn timer either by being as a coefficient to the current timer (for example value .5 would halve the time) or being absolute value (for example 5 would make it always be 5 seconds)
• Allow players to choose whether to spawn next to a friend (and which friend) or back to spawn area, possibly limited by server variable
• If all players are dead, let the people respawn at the original spawn area or the latest checkpoint without resetting the map
• Create a new entity or add a new keyvalue for existing entity that controls which method should be used in the map for all-dead situations. In some maps it could be justified to restart it completely instead of just respawning on start.
• Create a server variable that controls which method is to be used.
• Combined: Add map entity that controls all-dead situation and let the CVAR have three values:
  
  1. Use map settings
  2. Always restart map when all players are dead
  3. Always respawn at start when all players are dead

Allowing you to choose where to respawn would nice nice. I'm often planning on respawning with one guy, and then ending up in a completely different part of the map.

The last suggestion isn't really necessary - map makers already have control over cvars through the .edt files - as do server admins.

[GODJonez]

The last suggestion isn't really necessary - map makers already have control over cvars through the .edt files - as do server admins.

This is a bit off the topic, but I consider that to have both good and bad things. Sometimes maps want to force values for server variables that I do not want to be used on my server. Thanks to them being in the edt files, I can edit them, but if the maps are included in the game itself, one update could just replace the file again.

[Marajin]

...instead of crying like a little child. Help us - telling us "epic phail" doesn't help. It just shows to us that you're not worth listening to.

pff thats just rude totally unnecessary... and totally inappropriate behavior for an admin...
but if you start it you can have it...

you talk about crying? you guys mostly behave not like little kids but worse, like horrible old women " you said the live system sucks! :o how dare you wha wha wha wha mimimimi... "

and its just a suggestion...
because i really know a lot of people who dont like the token and last man standing stuff, and i dont want to wait 30 sec (or something) before spawning... i want to play not wait...

but as i said if you all like that, thats fine i was just trying to make a suggestion, and if you all think thats unnecessary then thats cool...

and i mostly agree with what GODjonez said in post #17 so if you wont listen to me cuz i said " epic fail " listen to him...